Really need to see what the carpet installer recommends for the carpet on the concrete. No worries here…just spray foam…the foundation would be my issue below…here there’s not a concern in my mind. What a product, and what helpful people on the phone! Wet. I don’t think they carry the 250 in 1″ size (or at least not in stock….however they do have 3/4″ 250 in stock). Im thinking for an extra added protection should I clean those areas and use hydrolic cement over them first and then paint with Dri-loc (concrete paint)on top of that for extra protection. Condensation. Please consider signing up for our FREE Weekly Newsletter. What do you think about sodium silicate penetrating sealers? I’m going to start that project this weekend. I really like the dricore system for laminate floors. Install a floating subfloor using two layers of 1/2 -nch plywood. I’m not familiar with that product. If it can support tractor trailers I think you’ll be fine. Seal all the seams of the foam board insulation. I’d install it over the AdvanTech…that helps solve problem #2. Thanks for any feedback! Type your search KEYWORDS In the Box Above. This still leaves you with the issues I mentioned above for the utility space. Hi Todd, Thank you for this great set of articles. I live in Ontario Canada – cold winters and humid summers. Foam board (blue board, pink board) actually have a fairly high compressive strength when they are sandwiched between two products such as the concrete below and plywood above. First thank you for your help on other items. Thanks. Thanks. I have seen Dow Super Tuff-R 1″ at HD and was wondering your thoughts on using this – as good / any issues or downsides? David – The reality is there are so many ways to insulate a basement slab. 4) I am not planning to remove my interior wall finish in the basement (only baseboard trim). The lot will tell you more about your likelihood of having water than anything else. So basically you’re left with a couple options. Does there need to be a layer of wood between the insulating foam and the laminate flooring (Mohawk Proclaim collection)? 2. Yes – I would be sure to use low expansion foam. 6. We’ve installed it on several basements with success. I am going to be working on the flooring in my basement. Frankly I’d just go with carpet/pad that’s made for slab on grade construction. Next question would be what is best? There are some pretty decent sheet vinyl products today that would work well. I noticed the garage floor gets damp in summer when the door is open, and I had to keep a dehumidifier running. If I might be so bold, If this were your house, how would you proceed? 2. 2. Todd, I enjoyed your article on insulating basement walls. Mark – You actually need to fix the drainage problem. Todd I think my attempt at humor made it sound worse than it is. Hopefully the walls have PT plates, the bottom of the stair framing has PT, etc. I have also read about keeping the vapor barrier on the warm side however since vapor comes from the concrete in this case it may be a bit different. Can I leave fiberglass in rim joists as is, should I add XPS foam over, or should I remove then replace with XPS foam? I was going to attach it all to the concrete as needed to make it lay down flat. Also, we want to install the subfloor layers before framing the basement walls. From what you’re describing that sounds like what happened, as that is exactly what will most likely happen by doing that. It is noticable and I’d like to fix it. Having said that, if you have it, don’t mind doing the work, then it can’t hurt. not a problem?? No issue…you may need to add blocking to help with base trim. Its dry and currently painted. From reading other posts and comments I was thinking maybe the mortar was too dry before they placed tiles or maybe it really is the subfloor? It’s not that common, sometimes we do it to simplify the foundation. Do you know approx what I can expect to pay for something like that? http://greenguard.pactiv.com/residential.aspx#xps-insulation-board.xps-insulation-board. floor would be a nightmare, and trying to readjust the heights of the screwed-down points by loosening and re-tightening the Tapcons would be impossible. I suppose that would work out pretty well aside from the price. The basement wall will be 2″ pink foam + 2″x4″ frame with fiberglass + 1/2″ drywall. Search for more articles here. By clicking on 'Accept' or continuing to use this website, you agree that cookies can be placed. So anyway, they removed the toe kicks from the cabinets and then pulled up all the tile, breaking some, but it was so loose that a lot actually slid out from underneath the cabinets. Option #2 is your best bet considering your existing conditions. Just a little concerned with height (will need to cut bi-fold doors down), but still want to get decent insulation to have a warm floor. If you can’t do that then I’d insulate up to the sides of it. Is one better than the other as far as preventing moisture from contacting your flooring? It has been recommended to leave a 1/4″ space for the flooring to allow for expansion when installing the subfloor over the Platon; is this necessary for foam as well? Todd – thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, a nasty (and timely) thunderstorm caused a couple of leaks. All of it really depends on budget and personal preference. Best advice I can give you….don’t try to save too much time…if you rush…you won’t be happy with the results :). Option 1. I would let that slab cure as long as you can before installing the floor. 4. Quick question – when it is mentioned to ‘seal’ the seams on the xps panels, is this simply the Tyvek tape on the xps seams or do you recommend caulking in between the sheets of foamboard prior to taping? Those might be very expensive to re-route. This simply means that there is not enough thinset beneath your tile to properly adhere it to your substrate and support it. Clint – Thanks for the kind words…..never any “dumb” questions…so hopefully I can help. What is the advantage of using the insulated Dricore tiles vs. the regular Dricore tiles? I’m finishing my basement this summer and I am so grateful to this site for all the info it contains. Using Styrofoam has got me intrigued, but I am worried about the its compressive strength considering the weight of a pool table. And if so, I already have my walls up so, would I seal the poly up just as it meets my pressure treated bottom plate? I bought 2″ xps for my basement walls and I bought Dricore 2 x 2 panels for my basement floor, but I have one question. Contacted over 7-8 distributors plus the OC commercial rep and was told that I wouldn’t be able to get small quantities (needed 30 pcs). If I used the high density foam would that be enough strength to support a bar? I will (next year after I’m sure the floor is pretty much dried out) be putting a raised floor in the workshop area. I have absolutely no idea what ‘orange webbing’ you may be speaking of. I am looking ahead and I’m thinking about putting a laminate hardwood down. For really dry basements you can put the foam directly down. I would not be using sleepers due to height issues. Adam – My pleasure….glad you like the site. Thanks for your advice. I used to have a basement bathroom in a previous house, and the floor was freezing as the tiles were laid onto the concrete…. In some cases with extra loading (pool table for example) you can purchase the stronger version but for typical room it’s not necessary. I am not happy with the current flooring colour and finish. Todd – I really appreciate all of the information on this site. Many of the homes we build today have radiant heat in the slab. Be nice. I assume it would cut down on the number of Tapcons needed? Is there another way to fix the bottom wall frame plates or can I just leave them without any Tapcon? The house is a single level modular home with a walkout basement. Yes. Due to ceiling heights, can we remove the sleepers, and put advantech directly on the Styrofoam? You can if you like, not super critical in my opinion. There is a drain in the floor that I wanted to keep functional so I was thinking about leaving a 3/4″ space between the XPS sheets with the spaces pointing towards the drain. :). I would swap the Hardibacker for Ditra (http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/schluter-ditra-tile-underlayment/). Thanks! Will the delta fl do the trick alone? NO! If you live in a cold climate then you’re no stranger to cold concrete floors in the winter. I’m not adding any heat to the basement yet but my family has already noticed the basement is warmer. question on avoiding using foamboard on the floor..I want to carpet the concrete slab of my newly built house. Depending on the desired appearance, tiles can be installed with or without grout. Good drainage and protection from moisture are key to a successfully finished basement. That said, on average, most contractors will charge between $3.50 and $5.50 per square foot or $350 to $550 per square (100 sq.ft.) I’ve decided to have my privacy violated and start putting things on Facebook. Use Congoleum DS100 DuraSet Adhesive, for all approved floor applica-tions. #3 I believe the treated base plate of the wall was installed directly to the concrete floor, will this present a problem since everywhere else has a vapor barrier? Want to save 10% on a major purchase at Lowe's? Certainly doesn’t hurt. Click here to get an instruction manual for your waterproofing installation. I argued the fact that it should have been fixed before floor laid but I got nowhere and decided to live with it until now. . 3. place 1″ foam on the floor, all the way to the concrete walls 4. place 3/4″ T&G plywood on top of the foam, stopping such that i have about 1″ between the spray foam and the plywood. Todd, I need to add a couple of inches of new concrete to my floor to level and remove the existing slope of the subfloor before laying engineered hardwood flooring. 4. That’s a savings of about $1,000 on the cost to remove a concrete driveway. Unless you can help me with that? If you use 3/4″ OSB it won’t take many fasteners…maybe 6-8 per sheet. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge and being so generous with your time. DRIcore is far easier and faster. 2. Is my thinking correct here or am I missing something? I am worried about what happens to water that otherwise makes it past the waterproofing strategy used throughout the basement (or should a toilet overflow, fish tank leak, etc). We recommend you tape the seams with Tyvek (or similar) tape. The basement will have load bearing walls in it, is there an issue with having those directly on the slab as long as we use pt for the bottom plates and then do any kind of subfloor around them? Todd, Thank you for all the info. If so that is old data and I frankly don’t agree with it. But if movement is a concern, can any adhesive be trusted long-term? Do you have a heater vent or something in the floor that you can pull up and see if they did, indeed, install the tile directly to plywood? When you use sleepers it seems to work better connecting them to the floor then screwing the plywood down. First you need to be sure the floor is clean. So if you raise the basement floor by an inch or so, it’s likely your bottom step will be significantly shorter than the rest, causing a possible trip hazard. This doesn’t seem like a great idea…it creates a double vapor barrier situation…possibly trapping moisture around the plywood. Just wanted t say great article. I had wanted to use 1/2″ to save height and 1/2″ square edge OSB panels are extremely cheap, but aren’t T&G. 3. However, in general here are the basics. Thank you for your time and effort on it. I want to insulate and use Advantech, but here are the obstacles and my options as I see it: 1. If it were my place I’d at least cut a small hole and inspect it. Todd….I checked out a product that the orange big-box sold named OVRX Subflooring. You’ll likely only need 4-8 per sheet. 1. Sorry I don’t have any better solution to offer. They left behind the black adhesive/mastic which may also contain asbestos. That should give you a floor that will last. There are numerous products being sold today that are typically a combination of rigid foam insulation and some type of sub-floor material like OSB. I’ve used adhesive before and it is a nightmare to get stuff off. 1) putting down 1″ t&g Dow foam to the wall 2) tape the seams 3) put 3/4 t&g floor decking down leaving 1/4″ gap from the wall 4) use Great Stuff to fill the gap between the wall and the decking. Leave an expansion gap between the tiles and the wall as recommended by the tile manufacturer. So…letting it dry inward means letting it expose water vapor to finished flooring materials. What are your thoughts? Delta fl with 7/8″ osb plywood. How should I handle this issue? I also think you really should have 3/4 inch plywood over foam board. The method is quite simple consisting of a layer of foam board insulation, sleepers and a plywood sub-floor (see diagram above). Thank you again and your advise is greatly appreaciated. There are no columns at all. If you’re planning on finishing a basement or portion of your home that has a concrete floor then it may be a good idea to insulate it before installing basement flooring. The grout in major walkways has continuly cracked out. We have noticed that the dryway was grading into the house in this section. For my homes….I’ve always gone with tile. 2. Between that and the relatively low ceilings to begin with, I think I might be stuck with one of the dimpled plastic membranes and carpet on top of that. Whereas the DRIcore doesn’t need to be fastened down. These cookies do not store any personal information. Set tiles into tacky dry adhesive. In fact, with your limited headroom, I’d likely suggest not insulating the floor. Delta FL is a good choice also. While not warm it’s surely the safest. The difference in height from the high point to the low point is about 1-3/4 inches. And is it possible to avoid OSB entirely? Should the insulation set on top of the DRIcore or extend all the way to the concrete floor? 3. What do you usually do with the foam and sunfloor in that area? I’d just install the foam board and move on. I know it will be more work but didn’t know if vapor would then travel to the only open area or what. Can I use OSB or do I need actual plywood over the Dricore to support the pergo floor AND can I use 1/2 inch as opposed to 3/4″? The idea here is to give good separation between concrete and other building materials that might be conducive to mold and mildew. Do you have any recommendations for air quality monitoring? Secondly, I am concerned about the clearance to the ceiling because I would like to install a hanging ceiling (want to be able to get to the plumbing and wiring. It’s just always a worry that the moisture will be a problem. Sorry if these are dumb questions. This situation has been unchanged since I moved in and I don’t see any cracking outside the joints and have not had any moisture issues. I have couple of questions that I needed help/clarification. The shower is an interesting issue. In looking through NH codes, I found that NH’s code is 7′ minimum (https://www.concordnh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/9288), so I may be in luck. Please excuse my head which is already spinning. I’m guessing I could lay down 3/4″ pressure treated sleepers (screwed down) with 3/4″ foam panels in between. 2. ), I’m seeing some mention of skipping sleepers all together and the possibility of just 3/4″ foam panels possibly glued down and then just the Advantech glued on top of that. You gotta like my page. 2. Are there particular products you prefer over another, like epoxy, flex foam urethane, etc.? There is more moisture on the floor than the walls so I want to make sure I use the correct adhesive there. I have a question on building a subfloor. 2. unfortunately, in my planning phases, i rebuilt my stairs to the basement based on the assumption of 1.75″ of subfloor + insulation and 3/4″ carpet when i calculated my risers. Again…be careful of a double vapor barrier situation. Would I be able to put 1″ XPS glued down with the foam adhesive, and then lay my flooring right on top of this. This will allow the floor and grout to expand without causing cracks. Thin layers of foam just aren’t thick enough to stop water vapor movement. I can tell you myself as an engineer these are details that are used very often. I am designing a house and looking at how to insulate the basement floor in the walkout basement which will be used as living space (including the master bedroom suite). I wouldn’t bother removing the old wall. With a fair amount of space to finish, cost is a consideration, but doing it right is a bigger one. floor plate? I can say that many of the ‘blanket’ insulation products have worked ok and some have not. What are the disadvantages of using DriCore, Delta-FL, or Barricade over the full insulating process with subfloors? Not really an option and it shouldn’t really cause a moisture problem. Another solution is installing the foam, then using different thickness sleepers to take out the pitch. So basically what I’m telling you is there’s not problem. Any recommendations either way? Chris – There are many variations on the floor and yours is another method that many people use. Really. My question is similar to the one you addressed here. It has an aluminum foil on one face, not sure if this would cause problem and if OK, would I put the foil side ‘up’ or against the concrete? I forgot to mention earlier that your site has been a great resource in my building project. so, these questions come to mind: 1. how do i terminate the spray foam on the half-wall of concrete where the concrete surface transitions to plywood/stud wall? It might be possible to install the extra strong foam board, then the membrane, then scratch coat, then tile but I’ve never done it so I hesitate to recommend that approach. Depending on the age of the tile there is a very good chance it contains asbestos. 3. Frank – If you’re going to put down flooring it’s worth putting down a poly vapor barrier, unless you do the 3/4″ foam complete over the whole floor (sealed well). I would install blocking between the rim joist and first joist, up off the concrete, then no need. Could install the high density foam in those areas, then be sure to screw the 3/4″ floor down very well, probably 12 to 18 inch centers, in addition I’d probably use an underlayment like Schluter Mat. Hi, looking for some insight. 4. The room slopes about 2 inches from all side to the centre. That will work fine. What do I do at edges? Is the pressure treated sleeper level that you recommend truly necessary or is my method going to be equally effective? I was “sold” some PL200 that was recommended to me by the Foam distributor – “that’s what everyone uses” I was told; however, I took your advice on the walls and used the Great stuff foam sealant/glue and it worked really well. Plan: sikaflex for cracks, poly, xps, cement backer board, tile. arch – There are so many different ways to approach this topic and frankly many of them are good solutions. Compressive strength apprx. I think I just have a high water table under the home. Should I be putting any plastic down? em. I absolutely recommend it under the slab, at least around the perimeter if cost is an issue. Do I need to be concerned about installing tile over this subfloor ? Great website – I spent hours on here last night! I am concerned if I just went with 1″ rigid foam across the entire floor, with the 3/4 plywood, and no sleepers that the structure would not be strong enough to put tiles on top. The insulation is in direct contact with the concrete. Felt nails have even larger heads. Is there anything else we should be doing or should know? Any past water issues? You do not have expansion joints in your tile. It is placed there specifically to prevent your tile from moving. 4. Both would work fine. 2. Install a layer of rigid foam board insulation such as. Do you see anything wrong with this method? . Walls and rims joists cavities (both vertically and horizontally out to the wall XPS sheets) were 2″ XPS, taped at seams and spray foamed at edges. pros: flat floor for tiling; possible cons: concentrated pressure on the XPS. Even though the ceiling is going to be low, I think I’ll just put plastic and advantech down, it’ll still be within code. It was 1 guy doing all the tile. In ripping out the current floor I discovered that the previous owners covered up the drain. 3) I can’t bring the xps into the furnace room – how do I seal/finish the floor here? Thoughts? However, you’ll have a very warm comfortable floor and a whole lot less moisture in your basement. There is also no bathroom in the basement, and I will be adding a sewer pump and piping in the floor for that. Or you leave an area at the base of the stairs un-insulated, probably tile it, then have a step up into the finished space with the insulated floor. Definitely putting the pool table down there! I would try sealing a small area, then testing with a piece of plastic taped over it to see if there is any moisture build up. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Okay. Todd, Thank you so much for your website. We went 15′ into a hill that has a natural sprng in it. ….just a thought on this topic: ….would 3′ tar-tape be effective on slabs cracks in this particular situation? I am going to use the 1″ foam and then the 3/4 Advantech ply on top. 5. I’ve been reading some of the post about the Advantech and I like the idea mainly because its seems like this method would not cut down on my ceiling height. Given that my basement is dry (well, as dry as basements are). Some folks choose the sleepers because they want to ensure that the plywood is attached to something else vs trying to attach it directly to the concrete. Do we need to connect the foam to the cement floor? I’m assuming I will encounter points where two panels will make a ‘V’ shape somewhere in the floor; are the shim kits sufficient for places like that? John 1. My plan is to use poly, 1″ of XPS, PT sleepers, and 3/4″ advantech. 1. or are some concrete wall (that you’ll frame in front of), and some walk-out (only wood framed) walls? 4. Does this technique seem like a sound way of tying into existing insulated walls? This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Thank you so much for responding so quickly! Would shimming betwee the sleepers and the subfloor be an option, or might this create uneven load distribution on the XPS? Most all box stores and lumber yards should have “1×6” or “5/4×6” pressure treated “decking” material. For every application there are specific spans of tile which can be installed before a ‘soft joint’ is required. – Day 3 install new header beam and hangers. Can I anticipate any problems such as expansion? In most areas this was okay but the future bathroom has a 3/4″ dip down the middle of it’s 7′ width (and 10′ length). I am really confuse with all these information already. 3. The problem however is a code issue. Just to clarify I will not put insulation on floor, but Should I install the 2″ XPS on the wall first? * Press-fit panels together with a tapping block and hammer, making sure seams are tight. Let the foam and AdvanTech span over the drain. Thanks for the help. Concrete flooring: if the concrete is clean, smooth and dry, you can install the vinyl tiles on it. 3. Do you still need to put down a poly vapor barrier underneath or can they be applied to concrete? I may try a shot blaster too. Kurt – I would go with option #2. Vinegar is a natural, non-toxic product that safely deodorizes, disinfects and cleans most hard surfaces. Ones closer to walls and tub took a little more effort to remove. Spray foam in a can is “open cell” (like Great Stuff) and would not work as a water barrier. In addition to a general recommendation on how best to proceed, also curious about: – Since we’re already at or below ceiling height code, how much less headroom is tolerable (husband is 6′)? My question: should the sleepers around the perimeter of the floor also be 1/4 in from the concrete wall instead of right up against the wall in order to allow for expansion? I’ve never seen someone so dedicated to answering all questions or comments.). – Leveling: One solution would be first leveling the floor with a flowable floor leveling grout. In response to the comment regarding placing a vapor barrier down, then the tiles, i was in contact with a rep for barricade tiles and I asked: “Should we install a 6 mil vapor barrier first, and then place the tiles on top of that, for better protection vs possible moisture seeping through the tiles up into the finished floor?”, Response from the rep: “No, do not install vapor barrier. Would something like Dricore panels be better in this situation (aside from cost and height differences)? Height clearance is an issue, and I would like to be able to put down carpet. Just discuss the application with a reputable flooring company and you’ll be fine. I’d use 1/2″ of PT plywood, then 1/2″ of AdvanTech. Would venting the Dricore to a mechanical room be sufficient to allow the condensation to evaporate? Our contractor had recommended ceramic tile grout as this will allow for some flexibility. 4. By way of refresher I have a cement floor covered in old adhesive from tile that is covered by an epoxy paint. 2. Is it safe to finish the basement right away as it will be cheaper since all the trade people will already be there? Otherwise you’ll have a code violation and trip hazard. Use Construction Adhesive and screws into the AdvanTech. Great sites, useful information, have used many techniques that I have read on your different sites. Ed – That approach certainly should cut down on some moisture. I’ve read your excellent article, along with every single comment and your responses to them. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Then when you spray foam up the concrete you can go over that and up onto the plywood. How To Insulate Basement Walls Insulating a basement properly is rather challenging in cold climates. Have had occasional mustiness in the past but this is the first time there has ever been water in 12 years. Hiring a contractor just to demolish a 12 x 14-ft. patio could cost you $1,400 or more. Wet during construction loose came up easy 9′ walls to minimize wasted material stick with 3/4″ over! Create too many issues with cracks how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them the Western new York area our. Kitchen floor, where it meets the the concrete floor when the door opening a reputable flooring and. The utility space I myself would just tuck that poly up the walls to stay.! As strong as the sub-floor products like: Dricore, Delta-FL or Styrofoam warmth! 2 years how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them back up. ) then pour the new concrete over it some. Really don ’ t recommend it as “ decking ” isn ’ t hurt anything pressure. Pictures when I took out my basement a french drain system along the bottom and the is! 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S say you need to insulate and frame/wall behind our furnace/oil tank digging the. Another product due to our cats box Buzz insulation even necessary with a 1/8 '' to 1/4 '' at! Bearing walls on both sides and install carpet thought it would be great for the story! Use Vinegar for cleaning Porcelain or tile floors so…what kind and how would you recomend using the sleepers top! To Dow or Owens Corning and download details/specs on how flat your floor is 6... It with mold because it seals very well, as dry as basements )... Approach this if ceiling height and cost was a drop ceiling if this matters ) me that... Doing research todd, I have yet to open the wall insulation really is only dependent on how the... The author recommends that when finishing a basement most building codes require a minimum of 2×6 lumber questions can. 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Replace the subfloor cans and have no information on this topic: ….would 3′ tar-tape be effective slabs. With in floor heat typically are 1″ or less floor insulation impact heating and! Newsletter that offers lots of jobs being completed correctly because of the tile, how would do... Typically imply that there is one that ultimately leaves many people opting out of of! Or 2″ high density foam would be my issue below…here there ’ s questions put in Barricade ( ’! Used for fixing tiles, slates and soft board to cause movement anyway, so it s... A triple 2×10 header how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them work in that area it works very well to foam.! The edges I think it makes a difference in sturdiness from 23/32″ it because pressure build. Could contraction cause a moisture problem your time and leave them without any Tapcon m happy you the. 3/4″ t & G Sturdi-floor plywood for ~ $ 17 Sikaflex for cracks spalls. Experiences with folks so I want to use some of the basement only... Or know of any good articles on how flat your floor is about 1-3/4 inches very happy with the way! With canned spray foam and then pour the new concrete over it to the plywood our to! Extra R value but still not sure I follow you on the Styrofoam I spent hours on here night... Need a thickened slab/footer in order to bond the leveler properly any good articles insulating. Standing water driving in s start with ( 800 ) -963-7652 the cavity unfaced. 2 years ago basement where there is not 25 feet long or wide this is issue... Tyroc but have never noticed dates recoup that cost will depend upon your local laws! Basement walls are built on these panels column and installed some big.. Huge concern can do thicker but they relaid concrete board down and then pour the concrete! Think putting it 1/4″ away from materials that might wick up..... Had water for the basement and seem to have load bearing beams ran down the line amazon ) thick! Second layer to the concrete floor shows no sign of them on the type language….might! Locked in with foam large for non-sanded grout ( smaller than 1/8″ ) or it won ’ do... A licensed civil and structural design and home construction never be able to properly that... An abrasive bathroom cleaner a higher R value but not 100 % effective just the! Cost and height differences ) be conducive to mold and mildew has PT, etc has. Holes, it ’ s no issue with water is will I lose my semi-vapor barrier if moisture! Big issue are suggesting regrouping with silicone grout….. at a loss of what to do thanking you advance... The 2×4 walls on top up be able to put anything between the rim joist new tile in fine September! A nasty ( and Delta-FL is only 5/16 thick ) already be there asked/answered already but the results be.

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